Tots els informes
Cacao informes
#22152: "Add Turn Undo"
#22152: "Add Turn Undo"
rejected: Els desenvolupadors pensen que no és una bona idea o que el seu rati de cost/benefici és massa alt
22152
De què tracta aquest informe?
Què ha passat? Si us plau, selecciona a sota
Suggeriment: al meu entendre, aquesta idea pot millorar molt la implementació del joc
Què ha passat? Si us plau, selecciona a sota
Suggeriment: al meu entendre, aquesta idea pot millorar molt la implementació del joc
Si us plau, comprova si ja existeix un informe sobre el mateix tema
En cas afirmatiu, si us plau VOTA per aquest informe. Els informes amb més vots tenen PRIORITAT!
| # | Status | Votes | Game | Type | Title | Last update |
|---|
Descripció detallada
• Si us plau, copia i enganxa el missatge d'error que veus a la pantalla, si és que n'hi ha algun.
I think an turn undo feature would be helpful. I have accidentally tapped the wrong bubble and tried to sell cacao before I harvested it. Teotihuacan has it as a option the can be turned for the players that want it or left off for those that do not want it. /this seems like a good solution for a feature that only some players may want.• Si us plau, què volies fer, què vas fer i que va succeir
• Quin és el meu navegador?
Mozilla v5
• Si us plau, copieu/enganxeu el text mostrat en anglès en comptes del teu idioma. Si tens una captura de pantalla d'aquest error (bona pràctica), pots utilitzar Imgur.com per pujar-ho i copiar i enganxar el link aquí.
I think an turn undo feature would be helpful. I have accidentally tapped the wrong bubble and tried to sell cacao before I harvested it. Teotihuacan has it as a option the can be turned for the players that want it or left off for those that do not want it. /this seems like a good solution for a feature that only some players may want.• És aquest text disponible al sistema de traducció? Si és així, ha sigut traduït fa més de 24 hores?
• Quin és el meu navegador?
Mozilla v5
• Si us plau, expliqueu el vostre suggeriment de manera precisa i concisa, per que sigui el més fàcil d'entendre possible.
I think an turn undo feature would be helpful. I have accidentally tapped the wrong bubble and tried to sell cacao before I harvested it. Teotihuacan has it as a option the can be turned for the players that want it or left off for those that do not want it. /this seems like a good solution for a feature that only some players may want.• Quin és el meu navegador?
Mozilla v5
• Què es mostrava a la pantalla quan estaves bloquejat (pantalla en blanc? Part de la interfície del joc? Missatge d'error?)
I think an turn undo feature would be helpful. I have accidentally tapped the wrong bubble and tried to sell cacao before I harvested it. Teotihuacan has it as a option the can be turned for the players that want it or left off for those that do not want it. /this seems like a good solution for a feature that only some players may want.• Quin és el meu navegador?
Mozilla v5
• Quina part de les regles no s'han respectat per l'adaptació de BGA
I think an turn undo feature would be helpful. I have accidentally tapped the wrong bubble and tried to sell cacao before I harvested it. Teotihuacan has it as a option the can be turned for the players that want it or left off for those that do not want it. /this seems like a good solution for a feature that only some players may want.• És visible la violació de les normes durant la repetició de la partida? Si es així, en quin número de moviment?
• Quin és el meu navegador?
Mozilla v5
• Quina va ser l'acció del joc que volies fer?
I think an turn undo feature would be helpful. I have accidentally tapped the wrong bubble and tried to sell cacao before I harvested it. Teotihuacan has it as a option the can be turned for the players that want it or left off for those that do not want it. /this seems like a good solution for a feature that only some players may want.• Què intentes fer per dur a terme aquesta acció del joc?
• Què va passar quan ho vas intentar fer (missatge d'error, missatge de la barra d'estat de la partida, ...)?
• Quin és el meu navegador?
Mozilla v5
• A quina fase del joc va passar l'error (quina era la ordre en curs)?
I think an turn undo feature would be helpful. I have accidentally tapped the wrong bubble and tried to sell cacao before I harvested it. Teotihuacan has it as a option the can be turned for the players that want it or left off for those that do not want it. /this seems like a good solution for a feature that only some players may want.• Què va passar quan vas intentar dur a terme l'acció del joc (missatge d'error, missatge de la barra d'estat del joc, ...)?
• Quin és el meu navegador?
Mozilla v5
• Si us plau, descriviu el problema de visualització. Si tens una captura de pantalla d'aquest error (bona pràctica), pots utilitzar Imgur.com per pujar-ho i copiar i enganxar el link aquí.
I think an turn undo feature would be helpful. I have accidentally tapped the wrong bubble and tried to sell cacao before I harvested it. Teotihuacan has it as a option the can be turned for the players that want it or left off for those that do not want it. /this seems like a good solution for a feature that only some players may want.• Quin és el meu navegador?
Mozilla v5
• Si us plau, copieu/enganxeu el text mostrat en anglès en comptes del teu idioma. Si tens una captura de pantalla d'aquest error (bona pràctica), pots utilitzar Imgur.com per pujar-ho i copiar i enganxar el link aquí.
I think an turn undo feature would be helpful. I have accidentally tapped the wrong bubble and tried to sell cacao before I harvested it. Teotihuacan has it as a option the can be turned for the players that want it or left off for those that do not want it. /this seems like a good solution for a feature that only some players may want.• És aquest text disponible al sistema de traducció? Si és així, ha sigut traduït fa més de 24 hores?
• Quin és el meu navegador?
Mozilla v5
• Si us plau, expliqueu el vostre suggeriment de manera precisa i concisa, per que sigui el més fàcil d'entendre possible.
I think an turn undo feature would be helpful. I have accidentally tapped the wrong bubble and tried to sell cacao before I harvested it. Teotihuacan has it as a option the can be turned for the players that want it or left off for those that do not want it. /this seems like a good solution for a feature that only some players may want.• Quin és el meu navegador?
Mozilla v5
Historial de denúncies
4 d’ag. 2020 23:13 • DarkBeerMike • Els desenvolupadors encara no han analitzat aquest suggeriment:
optional undo
5 d’ag. 2020 6:03 • Luq B1 • Els desenvolupadors encara no han analitzat aquest suggeriment:
Agree 100%
5 d’ag. 2020 21:34 • DarkBeerMike • Els desenvolupadors encara no han analitzat aquest suggeriment:
Consider a checkbox to enable/disable the undo feature. I want it, but other players may feel differently.
8 d’ag. 2020 20:23 • Aeneas90 • Els desenvolupadors encara no han analitzat aquest suggeriment:
Agreed. Undo should be mandatory for all games if hidden information isnt revealed.
9 d’ag. 2020 9:33 • ExtraPaul • Els desenvolupadors pensen que no és una bona idea o que el seu rati de cost/benefici és massa alt:
I understand your request.
But "As a rule of thumb, on BGA we advise you to not undo moves." (en.doc.boardgamearena.com/BGA_Undo_policy)
It's the first time I program a game : I don't want to complexify the code at this time.
Maybe for a futur release...
Meanwhile, a refresh (F5) seems to be a solution.
But "As a rule of thumb, on BGA we advise you to not undo moves." (en.doc.boardgamearena.com/BGA_Undo_policy)
It's the first time I program a game : I don't want to complexify the code at this time.
Maybe for a futur release...
Meanwhile, a refresh (F5) seems to be a solution.
9 d’ag. 2020 16:35 • Aeneas90 • Els desenvolupadors pensen que no és una bona idea o que el seu rati de cost/benefici és massa alt:
Rejected the most upvoted issue because "its my first time and its too hard" doesnt fill me with confidence here. Perhaps see if there's a more experienced dev that can assist.
9 d’ag. 2020 16:46 • ExtraPaul • Els desenvolupadors pensen que no és una bona idea o que el seu rati de cost/benefici és massa alt:
I correct my point of view : it's not "to hard", but "too dangerous".
I don't want to loose control of the programming by implementing a not recommended functionnality.
But I keep in mind this request : I hope that players don't expect a 100% perfect game in the first release.
I don't want to loose control of the programming by implementing a not recommended functionnality.
But I keep in mind this request : I hope that players don't expect a 100% perfect game in the first release.
10 d’ag. 2020 5:57 • ExtraPaul • Els desenvolupadors pensen que no és una bona idea o que el seu rati de cost/benefici és massa alt:
The request #22149 ask to change worker tile place on the board, then confirm.
An UNDO would be easy to program for this state.
But an UNDO on tile actions is very inconvinient : on each action click, animations are launched, scores are updated, notifications are written, database is updated and all players view action in real time.
An UNDO would be easy to program for this state.
But an UNDO on tile actions is very inconvinient : on each action click, animations are launched, scores are updated, notifications are written, database is updated and all players view action in real time.
14 d’ag. 2020 0:54 • MoonGoyal • Els desenvolupadors pensen que no és una bona idea o que el seu rati de cost/benefici és massa alt:
I agree. Many games need this feature
14 d’ag. 2020 13:59 • paramesis • Els desenvolupadors pensen que no és una bona idea o que el seu rati de cost/benefici és massa alt:
An Undo action or confirm step is very frequently requested for adaptations where it doesn't exist, and I frequently see developers lean on the guidelines as an authoritative answer to every situation. Any experienced designer will tell you there is no such thing as a one-size-fits-all answer. The entire intent of guidelines is to make better adaptations, and it is on the developer to decide where that line is.
Are players having to click confirm buttons too many times?
Are players intentionally playing bad moves or moving pieces around in order to "think"?
Are players frustrated that the interface wouldn't let them take the turn that they wanted to take because they made one misclick? (definitely sounds like the case here).
Are players having to click confirm buttons too many times?
Are players intentionally playing bad moves or moving pieces around in order to "think"?
Are players frustrated that the interface wouldn't let them take the turn that they wanted to take because they made one misclick? (definitely sounds like the case here).
14 d’ag. 2020 16:46 • ExtraPaul • Els desenvolupadors voldrien més informació sobre aquest suggeriment:
Hello Paramesis.
Imagine that I have four jungle actions to carry out around my worker tile 1-1-1-1 :
- Get 2 cacao
- Sale 1 cacao for 2 gold
- Get 1 cacao
- Sale 1 cacao for 4 gold
I can click on any action in any order. Each action update score and notify other players about what's happen.
How the undo must be managed ?
If I get 2 cacao, sale 1 for 2 gold... oh no, mistake, I wanted sale for 4 gold -> Undo.
Then, Undo become available for my first action too ?
What others players see ? Gold back to the tile and score decrease ?
Imagine that I have four jungle actions to carry out around my worker tile 1-1-1-1 :
- Get 2 cacao
- Sale 1 cacao for 2 gold
- Get 1 cacao
- Sale 1 cacao for 4 gold
I can click on any action in any order. Each action update score and notify other players about what's happen.
How the undo must be managed ?
If I get 2 cacao, sale 1 for 2 gold... oh no, mistake, I wanted sale for 4 gold -> Undo.
Then, Undo become available for my first action too ?
What others players see ? Gold back to the tile and score decrease ?
14 d’ag. 2020 17:16 • paramesis • Els desenvolupadors voldrien més informació sobre aquest suggeriment:
There are a few ways you could go about this, but the simplest to implement and the one I would recommend would be database undo.
en.doc.boardgamearena.com/Main_game_logic:_yourgamename.game.php#Undo_moves
This would undo your entire turn. Canceled notification log items would disappear and there would only be one item saying "<player> cancels their move". The guidelines do mention that this is a heavy-handed solution because it saves and restores the entire table's data, but it is consistent with how many other games are implementing undo.
A more difficult to implement alternative would be an incremental undo ("player undoes worker action"). This would require storing individual actions taken this turn in the database in some way and creating a coherent way to represent undo on the client side. This is how I implemented incremental undo for tile placement in Off the Rails, but it does have the disadvantage you mention of creating a log entry for every action that is done and undone.
en.doc.boardgamearena.com/Main_game_logic:_yourgamename.game.php#Undo_moves
This would undo your entire turn. Canceled notification log items would disappear and there would only be one item saying "<player> cancels their move". The guidelines do mention that this is a heavy-handed solution because it saves and restores the entire table's data, but it is consistent with how many other games are implementing undo.
A more difficult to implement alternative would be an incremental undo ("player undoes worker action"). This would require storing individual actions taken this turn in the database in some way and creating a coherent way to represent undo on the client side. This is how I implemented incremental undo for tile placement in Off the Rails, but it does have the disadvantage you mention of creating a log entry for every action that is done and undone.
15 d’ag. 2020 10:04 • ExtraPaul • Els desenvolupadors estan d'acord que és una bona idea i estan planejant treballar-hi:
Thank you for this explanation.
I note that an Undo for the whole turn of actions is a way, but :
- a confirm button is thus necessary at the end;
- this state of the game is in multi player mode : the undo database will be for all players ?
- I must fire notifications to remove cacao fruits in the player zone;
I'm considering this Undo for the future, when I'll be more "veteran" with BGA programming.
This is a big refactoring.
I note that an Undo for the whole turn of actions is a way, but :
- a confirm button is thus necessary at the end;
- this state of the game is in multi player mode : the undo database will be for all players ?
- I must fire notifications to remove cacao fruits in the player zone;
I'm considering this Undo for the future, when I'll be more "veteran" with BGA programming.
This is a big refactoring.
15 d’ag. 2020 15:20 • paramesis • Els desenvolupadors estan d'acord que és una bona idea i estan planejant treballar-hi:
The basic implementation of database undo actually only requires a few lines of code.
$this->undoSavePoint(); at the beginning of a single player's turn, an undo button added to the action bar (possibly with a modal confirmation), an undo action added to action.php and added as a possible action to the state, and $this->undoRestorePoint(); if the user takes the undo action. See La Granja, Teotihuacan, and Off the Rails (mine) for publicly accessible precedents.
I do not believe an end turn button violates the intent of the BGA guidelines for multi-step turns. I have written a defense of this position on the forums here: boardgamearena.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=16770
Of course, every game is different, and if an end turn button feels like too much of an extra step, you could investigate the "request undo" checkbox precedent established in Teotihuacan. This would require refactoring to add an extra state, or to add an extra argument to each player action.
database undo is not supported in multiactiveplayer states. There can be only one persistent active player between any two points where undoSavePoint and undoRestorePoint are called. From my understanding of this game, it seems pretty rare that the multipleactiveplayer state would require multiple actions, so you'd probably be fine without an undo here. If it feels like it does need an Undo to be consistent, it might be better to cycle through players in a single action. La Granja has a game option for this, but that might be overkill here.
No notifications are necessary to restore the game state. undoRestorePoint automatically handles this :)
$this->undoSavePoint(); at the beginning of a single player's turn, an undo button added to the action bar (possibly with a modal confirmation), an undo action added to action.php and added as a possible action to the state, and $this->undoRestorePoint(); if the user takes the undo action. See La Granja, Teotihuacan, and Off the Rails (mine) for publicly accessible precedents.
I do not believe an end turn button violates the intent of the BGA guidelines for multi-step turns. I have written a defense of this position on the forums here: boardgamearena.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=16770
Of course, every game is different, and if an end turn button feels like too much of an extra step, you could investigate the "request undo" checkbox precedent established in Teotihuacan. This would require refactoring to add an extra state, or to add an extra argument to each player action.
database undo is not supported in multiactiveplayer states. There can be only one persistent active player between any two points where undoSavePoint and undoRestorePoint are called. From my understanding of this game, it seems pretty rare that the multipleactiveplayer state would require multiple actions, so you'd probably be fine without an undo here. If it feels like it does need an Undo to be consistent, it might be better to cycle through players in a single action. La Granja has a game option for this, but that might be overkill here.
No notifications are necessary to restore the game state. undoRestorePoint automatically handles this :)
15 d’ag. 2020 15:21 • paramesis • Els desenvolupadors estan d'acord que és una bona idea i estan planejant treballar-hi:
I forgot to add that rolling out database undo will break games in progress, so it's best to do that now while it's in Alpha.
25 d’ag. 2020 15:58 • iris1 • Els desenvolupadors estan d'acord que és una bona idea i estan planejant treballar-hi:
Wish it was like in carcassonne 3 tiles in hand. Be able to change mind about which of the three tiles and try them out on the before you confirm. Then I guess the undo would be not necessary.
14 de set. 2020 3:39 • razzinplant • Els desenvolupadors estan d'acord que és una bona idea i estan planejant treballar-hi:
An undo button when placing a tile would be nice so before you confirm placement you can choose a different tile.
24 de set. 2020 10:32 • NexusHorizon • Els desenvolupadors estan d'acord que és una bona idea i estan planejant treballar-hi:
I think that would be enough and a more practical solution (for players and developer) to have the ability to change the worker tile just before choosing the jungle tile
24 de set. 2020 11:49 • ExtraPaul • Els desenvolupadors estan d'acord que és una bona idea i estan planejant treballar-hi:
Yes, and this iidea is here : boardgamearena.com/bug?id=24585
28 de set. 2020 21:55 • ExtraPaul • Els desenvolupadors pensen que no és una bona idea o que el seu rati de cost/benefici és massa alt:
"I think that would be enough and a more practical solution (for players and developer) to have the ability to change the worker tile just before choosing the jungle tile"
This is implement is this new release version 200928-2118.
I reject the idea to program an undo on a multi players state : this is overkill and reduces the flow of the game.
This is implement is this new release version 200928-2118.
I reject the idea to program an undo on a multi players state : this is overkill and reduces the flow of the game.
Afegeix quelcom a aquest report
Si us plau afegiu aquí qualsevol cosa que sembli rellevant per tal de reproduir aquest error o entendre el vostre suggeriment:
- Un altre ID de partida / ID de moviment
- Prémer F5 ha ajudat a arreglar el problema?
- El problema apareix diversos cops? Cada cop? a l'atzar?
- Si tens una captura de pantalla d'aquest error (bona pràctica), pots utilitzar Imgur.com per pujar-ho i copiar i enganxar el link aquí.
Canvia l'estat de l'informe a:
bug?id=22152
