#158892: "Randal's ability implemented incorrectly, allows Plains Safeguard while in adjacent regions"
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Descripció detallada
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• Si us plau, copia i enganxa el missatge d'error que veus a la pantalla, si és que n'hi ha algun.
The ability on Randal's card reads:
ON YOUR TURN, you may USE abilities of adjacent Outer Regions...
This should mean that when it's NOT your turn (i.e. during an enemy attack turn), the abilities of adjacent Outer Regions shouldn't be available. And essentially by definition, Defend only happens outside of your turn.
As implemented, if you are adjacent to the Plains (including in the Capital City), you're able to Defend any adjacent regions to the one you're on. -
• Si us plau, què volies fer, què vas fer i que va succeir
Yes, starting from the first instant of the game (move 3 in the log, I was able to defend the Plains and Forest while I am in the Capital City), and throughout the game multiple times, if I am in any region adjacent to the Plains, I am able to defend both adjacent regions during enemy turns.
• Quin és el meu navegador?
Google Chrome v132
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• Si us plau, copieu/enganxeu el text mostrat en anglès en comptes del teu idioma. If you have a screenshot of this bug (good practice), you can use a picture hosting service of your choice (snipboard.io for example) to upload it and copy/paste the link here. És aquest text disponible al sistema de traducció? Si és així, ha sigut traduït fa més de 24 hores?
The ability on Randal's card reads:
ON YOUR TURN, you may USE abilities of adjacent Outer Regions...
This should mean that when it's NOT your turn (i.e. during an enemy attack turn), the abilities of adjacent Outer Regions shouldn't be available. And essentially by definition, Defend only happens outside of your turn.
As implemented, if you are adjacent to the Plains (including in the Capital City), you're able to Defend any adjacent regions to the one you're on. • Quin és el meu navegador?
Google Chrome v132
-
• Si us plau, expliqueu el vostre suggeriment de manera precisa i concisa, per que sigui el més fàcil d'entendre possible.
The ability on Randal's card reads:
ON YOUR TURN, you may USE abilities of adjacent Outer Regions...
This should mean that when it's NOT your turn (i.e. during an enemy attack turn), the abilities of adjacent Outer Regions shouldn't be available. And essentially by definition, Defend only happens outside of your turn.
As implemented, if you are adjacent to the Plains (including in the Capital City), you're able to Defend any adjacent regions to the one you're on. • Quin és el meu navegador?
Google Chrome v132
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• Què es mostrava a la pantalla quan estaves bloquejat (pantalla en blanc? Part de la interfície del joc? Missatge d'error?)
The ability on Randal's card reads:
ON YOUR TURN, you may USE abilities of adjacent Outer Regions...
This should mean that when it's NOT your turn (i.e. during an enemy attack turn), the abilities of adjacent Outer Regions shouldn't be available. And essentially by definition, Defend only happens outside of your turn.
As implemented, if you are adjacent to the Plains (including in the Capital City), you're able to Defend any adjacent regions to the one you're on. • Quin és el meu navegador?
Google Chrome v132
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• Quina part de les regles no s'han respectat per l'adaptació de BGA
The ability on Randal's card reads:
ON YOUR TURN, you may USE abilities of adjacent Outer Regions...
This should mean that when it's NOT your turn (i.e. during an enemy attack turn), the abilities of adjacent Outer Regions shouldn't be available. And essentially by definition, Defend only happens outside of your turn.
As implemented, if you are adjacent to the Plains (including in the Capital City), you're able to Defend any adjacent regions to the one you're on. -
• És visible la violació de les normes durant la repetició de la partida? Si es així, en quin número de moviment?
Yes, starting from the first instant of the game (move 3 in the log, I was able to defend the Plains and Forest while I am in the Capital City), and throughout the game multiple times, if I am in any region adjacent to the Plains, I am able to defend both adjacent regions during enemy turns.
• Quin és el meu navegador?
Google Chrome v132
-
• Quina va ser l'acció del joc que volies fer?
The ability on Randal's card reads:
ON YOUR TURN, you may USE abilities of adjacent Outer Regions...
This should mean that when it's NOT your turn (i.e. during an enemy attack turn), the abilities of adjacent Outer Regions shouldn't be available. And essentially by definition, Defend only happens outside of your turn.
As implemented, if you are adjacent to the Plains (including in the Capital City), you're able to Defend any adjacent regions to the one you're on. -
• Què intentes fer per dur a terme aquesta acció del joc?
Yes, starting from the first instant of the game (move 3 in the log, I was able to defend the Plains and Forest while I am in the Capital City), and throughout the game multiple times, if I am in any region adjacent to the Plains, I am able to defend both adjacent regions during enemy turns.
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• Què va passar quan ho vas intentar fer (missatge d'error, missatge de la barra d'estat de la partida, ...)?
• Quin és el meu navegador?
Google Chrome v132
-
• A quina fase del joc va passar l'error (quina era la ordre en curs)?
The ability on Randal's card reads:
ON YOUR TURN, you may USE abilities of adjacent Outer Regions...
This should mean that when it's NOT your turn (i.e. during an enemy attack turn), the abilities of adjacent Outer Regions shouldn't be available. And essentially by definition, Defend only happens outside of your turn.
As implemented, if you are adjacent to the Plains (including in the Capital City), you're able to Defend any adjacent regions to the one you're on. -
• Què va passar quan vas intentar dur a terme l'acció del joc (missatge d'error, missatge de la barra d'estat del joc, ...)?
Yes, starting from the first instant of the game (move 3 in the log, I was able to defend the Plains and Forest while I am in the Capital City), and throughout the game multiple times, if I am in any region adjacent to the Plains, I am able to defend both adjacent regions during enemy turns.
• Quin és el meu navegador?
Google Chrome v132
-
• Si us plau, descriviu el problema de visualització. If you have a screenshot of this bug (good practice), you can use a picture hosting service of your choice (snipboard.io for example) to upload it and copy/paste the link here.
The ability on Randal's card reads:
ON YOUR TURN, you may USE abilities of adjacent Outer Regions...
This should mean that when it's NOT your turn (i.e. during an enemy attack turn), the abilities of adjacent Outer Regions shouldn't be available. And essentially by definition, Defend only happens outside of your turn.
As implemented, if you are adjacent to the Plains (including in the Capital City), you're able to Defend any adjacent regions to the one you're on. • Quin és el meu navegador?
Google Chrome v132
-
• Si us plau, copieu/enganxeu el text mostrat en anglès en comptes del teu idioma. If you have a screenshot of this bug (good practice), you can use a picture hosting service of your choice (snipboard.io for example) to upload it and copy/paste the link here. És aquest text disponible al sistema de traducció? Si és així, ha sigut traduït fa més de 24 hores?
The ability on Randal's card reads:
ON YOUR TURN, you may USE abilities of adjacent Outer Regions...
This should mean that when it's NOT your turn (i.e. during an enemy attack turn), the abilities of adjacent Outer Regions shouldn't be available. And essentially by definition, Defend only happens outside of your turn.
As implemented, if you are adjacent to the Plains (including in the Capital City), you're able to Defend any adjacent regions to the one you're on. • Quin és el meu navegador?
Google Chrome v132
-
• Si us plau, expliqueu el vostre suggeriment de manera precisa i concisa, per que sigui el més fàcil d'entendre possible.
The ability on Randal's card reads:
ON YOUR TURN, you may USE abilities of adjacent Outer Regions...
This should mean that when it's NOT your turn (i.e. during an enemy attack turn), the abilities of adjacent Outer Regions shouldn't be available. And essentially by definition, Defend only happens outside of your turn.
As implemented, if you are adjacent to the Plains (including in the Capital City), you're able to Defend any adjacent regions to the one you're on. • Quin és el meu navegador?
Google Chrome v132
Historial de denúncies
Right now it works as intended by me. Randal copies all the abilities around him from other Defenders and from other Regions.
But you are right with wording of the card: "Your Turn" and "Use abilities".
I think I will get other reports about Randals ability not working, when I exclude specific abilities from beeing copied. Right now it feels the the most reports are for Randal anyway.
When I exclude the Safeguard Ability from the Plains Region, I should probably exclude some more abilities:
- Um'Taks Berserk: Use Sacrifice multiple times -> This is not an ability that is actively "used". So it would not match the "Use abilities" wording.
- Adelphos Transport: move another Defender together with you -> also passive ability
- Ezru Courage: Reduce Threat at the start of your Turn -> yes "Your Turn", bit again passive abilit. You do not "use the ability".
- Laishom Command: When you draw your Defender card -> its not your turn and its not an ability to use.
- Pteryx Maneuver: When you defend -> also a "defend" effect like the Plains Safeguard.
- Oryk Matyr: after defending lose HP instead of defending player -> its not your turn and its not an ability to use.
In case Randal plays together with only the characters mentioned above, he can not copy anything from the Defenders and is kind of useless. I do not know if copying Region abilities of nearby Regions is still enough to let Randal be an useful character.
But I am still interested in your opinion! (Implementing a fix for this is not a big deal)
I think there's certainly room for debate on what "Use abilities" exactly means, and there can be a spectrum of reasonable interpretations. But I believe the "On your turn" phrase is much more clear cut, so I would suggest limiting the scope of this round of potential changes to focusing on this criteria, and see what the downstream impact is.
I believe the Plains (Safeguard) ability is the only one from the regions that falls under this category, and implementation-wise, I suspect the programming logic for the Plains (Safeguard) could be essentially identical to the Desert (Mirage). If this were the only change you made, that could be a reasonable choice.
However, if you decide you want to consider "On your turn" regarding copying other Defenders' abilities, here are my thoughts (again I'm ignoring the active/passive issue for this ticket):
- Ezru Courage: Agreed that is your turn, therefore enable/disable it based on your active/passive decision.
- Laishom Command: My interpretation is that "As soon as your Defender card is drawn", it is already your turn, because the end of that ability says "...and then continue your turn", not "...and then start your turn". Therefore enable/disable it based on your active/passive decision.
- Lealith Retribution: Not your turn when you would defend, so would never apply
- Oryk Martyr: Not your turn when your teammate would defend, so would never apply
- Oryk Strong: Can be during your turn, Active/passive decision
- Um'Tak Berserk: During your turn, Active/passive decision
- Adelphos: Both abilities are during your turn, both are active/passive decision
- Harpier: Cleave is clearly during your turn and active, Iron Hide is defend, so would never apply
- Pteryx Maneuver: Defend, so would never apply
The other champions I didn't mention have abilities clearly during your turn and active.
Finally, regarding your concern about Randal still being useful if some abilities are excluded, I would say that even if NONE of the other Defenders' abilities were available to Randal and if the Safeguard ability were only available while ON the Plains, I believe Randal is by far the most overpowered Defender, because his action economy is incredible (when you can move less, you can do way more things) and even provides compounding value when the Coast is on the Dispatch side. For example I'm currently in a game with Coast (Dispatch) on the left and Forest (Enchant) on the right, and I essentially never need to leave the Capital City, because I can Dispatch my teammate and/or Enchant, and automatically heal to full so I can Sacrifice freely. I'm not only saving my own actions but also my teammate's. The game is on highest difficulty and I expect to tackle it very easily.
Let me know your thoughts and what you decide!
I think you persuaded me when you just focus on the "your turn" aspect of the wording. Because Use Ability is not defined very well.
Just in case you are interested: The implementation is straight forward. I will mark all the applicable abilities as "in-your-turn"-abilities and Randal will only copy these.
- Safeguard
- IronHide
- Maneuver
- Martyr
- Retribution
Afegeix quelcom a aquest report
- Un altre ID de partida / ID de moviment
- Prémer F5 ha ajudat a arreglar el problema?
- El problema apareix diversos cops? Cada cop? a l'atzar?
- If you have a screenshot of this bug (good practice), you can use a picture hosting service of your choice (snipboard.io for example) to upload it and copy/paste the link here.
